Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | See parent post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 12, 2011 6:09am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

"Some posters have an ax to grind against the Archive and give advice that may not be in the Archives or your best interest." is what the cranky one wrote, how can that possibly relate to my copyright protected content?

What I find the most ridiculous is the Archive has admins and moderators who are well versed in copyrights and intellectual property, and yet every time there is a valid question or concern the admins and moderators seem to vanish.

Every time I visit this website there are posts with "remove due to copyright violation", so clearly there's an on-going problem that needs to be addressed.

Ignorance of the law does not change the law, not knowing something is copyright protected does not change the copyrights.

Should I or anyone here take material's from this website thinking the material's are either public domain or usable under the fair use doctrine and receive a letter from the rightful owner demanding a cease and desist as well an amount for damages I think it highly unlikely the Archive is going to jump to the rescue.

Maybe reading the Archives terms of service regarding 3rd party use of content found on the Archive, would inspire more people that come to this site to be mindful, and a hell of a lot more eager to understand the basics of copyrights.

I'm not the first person who posted factual information on this site only to be met with anger paranoia and "personal" re-readings of the copyright act.



Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: MrCranky Date: Sep 12, 2011 3:44pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

I’ll try a story. Recently our church was getting ready for the Memorial Day parade. Everyone was outside preparing the float or lining up to march. Clouds came overhead and a light rain started to fall. As it got darker, a member of the church named Doug ran up. Doug is a beloved member of the church; he is very active, always available to help out and full of faith. But he’s just a little bit cautious. Doug ran up and shouted, “The parade is canceled! The rain is too heavy!” Many of the members prepared to leave and some grabbed their things to go. We then realized that Doug was not actually in charge and might be being overly cautious. When he was asked how he knew the parade was canceled, Doug became defensive and unhappy because, as he said, “He knew it!” Fortunately a church leader came out and told Doug it was alright, the rain looked like it was letting up and we should continue setting up. The rain did stop and we had a grand parade. Doug is still an important part of the church, but when it rains we don’t mention the parade.
Some of the people who do the Copyright research on the Archive show remarkable perseverance and research skills. Their scholarship is to be commended. It’s the “Stop, don't upload, I think it is copyright!” statements that cause a problem.
Perhaps the Public Domain Doug’s should let the up loaders post the films and recordings they are unsure of. Of course not the TV show from last night or a just released movie. But material not seen in ten years and not available to the general public should be given a shot. If it is copyrighted, the moderators will remove the copyright materials. And PD Doug will not have to shout at the clouds so much.


This post was modified by MrCranky on 2011-09-12 22:43:06

This post was modified by MrCranky on 2011-09-12 22:44:02

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: derkman96 Date: Sep 12, 2011 6:56pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

not to rain on your parade (cough cough) but if I just upload anything I don't realize there is a copyright on and hope someone will delete it, that's kind of like just peeing on every downed powerline and hoping that the power was turned off. It's sort of pointless, because I could have figured out if the power was still turned on, and there isn't really any going back, as jory2 said. Once I pee on the power line, I can't un-pee.
maybe all the people smart enough to upload and hope the films are pd should figure out how to un-pee.
Just a thought.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 13, 2011 3:01pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

derkman96 you may find some the info on the website below useful and easier to read?
http://www.spl-law.com/
I worked with one of the lawyers there are year or so ago, their website and blog are very user friendly.
The website has a legal/FAQ tab as well

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: MrCranky Date: Sep 13, 2011 2:51pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

I certainly will never ask you to help me with electrical work!
But to use your waste elimination analogy, let us suppose you are in Grand central Station, need to use the sanitary facilities and do not know where those are. 1. You could look for a Rest Room sign and follow it (IA's FAQ policy). 2. You could ask those passing nearby (Post a question.) Most people will be too busy or unsure how to answer. Some will point to the sign. 3. One crazy guy will show you his Boy Scout manual and describe the local water table and other nearby geographic features. Then he will loan you his collapsible shovel, offer a small packet of tissues and tell you to pack out your trash. 4. A group of drunken ninnies will tell you to pee on that wire over there. They will photograph you when you do it and post it on a lp page using technology they did not create and cannot build or repair. They will complain and curse at you when you ask them to stop. 5. Once in a while, a devious and hateful person will send you down the wrong corridor where you may be hurt.
Only in point 4 did the train station need protecting. Could you explain what harm will come to the Internet Archive if someone accidentally uploads an old film that was still under copyright?
And I daily observe a branch of industry that exists due to my uncompensated work several years ago. At least 75 people now have jobs using a technique I came up with while on a hike bouncing a stick through the mud. It simulated the effect pulsed lasers had on an alloy which was rotating at very high speed. I’m pleased the industry has grown and supports those people but do wish I had gotten rich from it. Should I ask them all for $100?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: derkman96 Date: Sep 13, 2011 3:11pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Alright. 1) I'm a boyscout... not all of them are handbook-thumpers. 2) sure, not much harm will come of the station, but you and others may be harmed. You would be harmed in point 5 and 4 and arguably in point 3. Think of point 5 as someone reads your previous post and decides to upload films that may or may not be copyrighted. Now let's say the owner of the copyrighted work sues you for damages. Let's say the work was downloaded 100 times. at a maximum fine of $250,000 you would have a $25,000,000 fine. Think of point 4 as when you are blatantly told to upload a bootleg of the movie that came out yesterday. You already know not to do that as stated in your previous post. Imagine point 3 is someone like jory2 giving you all the materials you need to figure out whether a film is under copyright. You decide you don't want to look because it would be difficult so you write off jory2 as "One crazy guy [who] will show you his Boy Scout manual" and upload the film anyway. If the film is under copyright and the owner of the copyright sues you for illegally distributing his/her film then you could get fined up to $250,000 for each time it was downloaded. Now let's imagine how point 2 could go. Point 2, you post a question in the forums about a movie, let's say you heard the movie Five Corners from 1987 is public domain. Your suspicions are confirmed and in the forums someone says "yes, it is PD if it doesn't have a notice in the opening or closing credits" and you upload the movie here. You then see that the film does have a notice. The right thing to do here would be to un-pee and just delete the file and all derivative files and then ask for the identifier to be deleted. If you just wait for someone else to delete it, you could potentially be sued by the owner of the copyright. Now this was a screwup on your (my) part. You (I) didn't look to see if the film had a notice. If you get the ok to post a film unconditionally and then someone else finds that it is under copyright for a reason that you didn't know about that isn't necessarily your fault. You should still however delete the files and post a remove request. Now those are just 2 examples that won't happen often. More often then not, you find the guy who actually knows where the bathroom is and everything is bliss. Point 1, as you said, would be to read the faq which tells you what to look for to see whether or not a film COULD BE public domain. So basically it comes down to whether or not you have any ambition. Think about how much it matters that you need to upload a movie here without posting a forum post. If someone wants to see the movie they'll see if they can find anything about its copyright status. If no one wants to see it, you probably don't need to upload it here anyway.
And just for the record, the Five Corners thing actually happened to me. I was man enough to say "Hey guys, I screwed up" and asked for it to be removed.

http://www.archive.org/post/378541/five-corners-1987
http://www.archive.org/post/390209/please-remove

but yeah. If you have something you want to upload I could definitely say that a forum post won't hurt. It's the people who upload and have hit-or-miss personalities to the point where they feel like they need to upload their movie collection then see how many need to be deleted. In more cases a movie will be under copyright than public domain. The public domain is shrinking... so yeah. You can find quite a few knowledgeable people here in the forums if you're looking to post a few films.
And get back to me if you learn to un-pee :)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: MrCranky Date: Sep 15, 2011 2:55pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

My position is still that since IA removes materials proven to be copyrighted, posts should not misguidedly state that things are copyrighted or suggest actions that may cause problems. I do not think you or most posters do that. But building a case against a resource as valuable as the IA, no matter how well it’s presented, may not really be for the public’s good. Your thoughtful writing may help some and you seem nice but there is a polecat nearby.
And sorry I did not describe things well in my earlier post. I’m the guy with the Boy Scout manual. Actually called a Handbook, it contains a good deal of practical information. But in my issue, the section on tracking does give instructions on following shape-shifters back to their lair.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 19, 2011 6:32am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Cranky your position on Copyrights mirrors your (self serving) position on the bulk of the issues you dig-your-heels into; misguided and ignorant.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: MrCranky Date: Sep 23, 2011 2:37pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 23, 2011 2:48pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

"suspicions"? what are you on about now?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: PhoenixCando Date: Sep 23, 2011 4:50pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Just read through all of the posts (attacks, counterattacks and intellectual masturbation - LMAO) throughout this thread. Talk about school yard children pissing up trees, on each other and in the sandbox. Yes, some of the links and information was/is helpful; but, for heaven sakes break it off. Time out you guys - enough already. If some dumb a$$e$ want to piss on downed power lines and/or jump off of high cliffs - let them.
Just my 2 bits of a 25¢ CDN piece = about 24.321432045918863702694814670688¢ US quarter.
Now, how about we start another thread arguing about the real time variable value rate of exchange (ASK vs BID) of my CND 2 bits. It would be more productive. ROTFALMSAO.

This post was modified by PhoenixCando on 2011-09-23 23:28:58

This post was modified by PhoenixCando on 2011-09-23 23:29:20

This post was modified by PhoenixCando on 2011-09-23 23:50:59

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 24, 2011 7:48am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

PhoenixCando thank you for the insightful thoughtful and highly educational comments in your post.



This post was modified by jory2 on 2011-09-24 14:48:21

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: PhoenixCando Date: Oct 13, 2011 9:51pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Jory:
Thanks for the acknowledgement for scattering the children or sending back home to their mothers. LOL :) I have seen this type of nonesense way too often in other forums. This one was particularly "bad" and stunk to high heaven.
I am very surprized that my few intelligent words and my funny ridiculous comparison actually put and end to the continual hostility and holier than thou comments.
I think I just made a friend.
Find me at my YouTube Channel is "PhoenixCanDo".
Life IS good. :D
Bob.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jory2 Date: Sep 12, 2011 4:33pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Help Please

Do you even consider, if just for a moment, that uploads are being uploaded to the internet?
Going out on a limb here, I would feel safe in saying that you are not a copyright owner who's property was illegally used on the internet? Have you ever tried to get your content removed after it's been illegally uploaded?
Are you aware of the fee's involved with DMCA agent services, legal services, the time invested and energy spent having to almost validate what is clearly written in the Copyright/ DMCA Acts.
"If it is copyrighted, the moderators will remove the copyright materials." by that time the horse has left the barn, and you find that fair?
The internet has given rise to a whole new breed of hoarders. Most people see all content as free to copy 'n' paste distribute and use. Some even think if there's no visible copyright on the content it's not copyright protected. Some go as far to think websites on the internet are all "fair-use". Where the hell else does a website publish content if not on the net? How does anyone come to conclude that the internet is void of legal copyright protected material's?
Have you never seen the disclaimer; "Found on the net therefore assumed to be public domain."?
Striking a balance between copyright owner and internet user has been one hell of an up-hill battle. Not because the laws aren't clear, or that people can't read.
Why there is still so much piracy is a mystery to me and many of the people I work with.
I've sat through a few court cases for claims of copyright infringements, "I didn't know" won't work, "fair use" does not apply to some content, "I didn't see a copyright notice" is not valid either.
I am not "Doug" nor am I pointing to the sky claiming rain may be coming.
When people are in a court faced with copyright infringement the storm has already hit.